why betas should more open

I think betas should be more open because almost as soon as they are released they find bugs they hadn't expected and they continue to find bugs until the last person that used the program finally uninstalls it. I know you will never totally get rid of all bugs but if the beta programs were more open to the public from the get go and had more people filing bug reports then maybe there would be less updates released a month after the programs hit stores shelves because a critical bug was found.
I'm not saying the answer is a totally open beta program because I'm not sure what that would do the Microsoft's applications and how microsoft could deal with that many people testing an application at once. I'm just saying let more people test it. Don't limit it to 100,000 testers let 1million test it if you can or it not 500,000 or 750,000 people test it. Ok now let the comment period begin.

I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...
.... so that's quite a few people, and don't forget there's a public preview next month as well :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

I think betas should be more open because almost as soon as they are released they find bugs they hadn't expected and they continue to find bugs until the last person that used the program finally uninstalls it. I know you will never totally get rid of all bugs but if the beta programs were more open to the public from the get go and had more people filing bug reports then maybe there would be less updates released a month after the programs hit stores shelves because a critical bug was found.
I'm not saying the answer is a totally open beta program because I'm not sure what that would do the Microsoft's applications and how microsoft could deal with that many people testing an application at once. I'm just saying let more people test it. Don't limit it to 100,000 testers let 1million test it if you can or it not 500,000 or 750,000 people test it. Ok now let the comment period begin.

"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message

I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...
... so that's quite a few people, and don't forget there's a public preview next month as well :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message I think betas should be more open because almost as soon as they are released they find bugs they hadn't expected and they continue to find bugs until the last person that used the program finally uninstalls it. I know you will never totally get rid of all bugs but if the beta programs were more open to the public from the get go and had more people filing bug reports then maybe there would be less updates released a month after the programs hit stores shelves because a critical bug was found.
I'm not saying the answer is a totally open beta program because I'm not sure what that would do the Microsoft's applications and how microsoft could deal with that many people testing an application at once. I'm just saying let more people test it. Don't limit it to 100,000 testers let 1million test it if you can or it not 500,000 or 750,000 people test it. Ok now let the comment period begin.

You SHOULDN'T have to pay for a BETA. It SHOULD be FREE. Sorry for the caps

but I'm trying to make a point here. If it was release software then yes I'd be willing to pay for it, but since Microsoft won't let me into their operating systems or office betas I have to pay for their public previews. Also I can't afford to pay $700/year for msdn when they only release operating systems every 5 years now. What would I get in the other 4 years? I'm just trying to make a point. When I said a million I mean per application not whole company. Like 1 million testers for vista before it went public preview, same for office and ie. Then maybe when it goes to launch it wouldn't have so many critical bugs that cause x number of machines to crash when they install it on the first try.

You don't have to pay for beta, you pay for MSDN which gets you a whole lot more than just beta software. The access to beta is just a bonus part of the package. Also, getting onto the full Tech Beta is free, you just have to be on the right website at the rigfht time, or know the right MS insiders.
The only time I have ever paid anything for MS beta software was back in the Win98 public beta when I paid a shipping fee for the CD to be sent to me (no way was I going to download it with my dial-up).
-- </Slugsie> "michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

You SHOULDN'T have to pay for a BETA. It SHOULD be FREE. Sorry for the caps but I'm trying to make a point here. If it was release software then yes I'd be willing to pay for it, but since Microsoft won't let me into their operating systems or office betas I have to pay for their public previews. Also I can't afford to pay $700/year for msdn when they only release operating systems every 5 years now. What would I get in the other 4 years? I'm just trying to make a point. When I said a million I mean per application not whole company. Like 1 million testers for vista before it went public preview, same for office and ie. Then maybe when it goes to launch it wouldn't have so many critical bugs that cause x number of machines to crash when they install it on the first try.

can someone here help me sign up for msdn so i can be a beta tester for Windows Vista?
"Slugsie" wrote in message

You don't have to pay for beta, you pay for MSDN which gets you a whole lot more than just beta software. The access to beta is just a bonus part of the package. Also, getting onto the full Tech Beta is free, you just have to be on the right website at the rigfht time, or know the right MS insiders.
The only time I have ever paid anything for MS beta software was back in the Win98 public beta when I paid a shipping fee for the CD to be sent to me (no way was I going to download it with my dial-up).
-- /Slugsie "michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message
You SHOULDN'T have to pay for a BETA. It SHOULD be FREE. Sorry for the caps but I'm trying to make a point here. If it was release software then yes I'd be willing to pay for it, but since Microsoft won't let me into their operating systems or office betas I have to pay for their public previews. Also I can't afford to pay $700/year for msdn when they only release operating systems every 5 years now. What would I get in the other 4 years? I'm just trying to make a point. When I said a million I mean per application not whole company. Like 1 million testers for vista before it went public preview, same for office and ie. Then maybe when it goes to launch it wouldn't have so many critical bugs that cause x number of machines to crash when they install it on the first try.

<banging head on wall>
-- </Slugsie> "Steven Wabik" wrote in message

can someone here help me sign up for msdn so i can be a beta tester for Windows Vista?

well sorry, but you don't have to hurt yourself over it. "Slugsie" wrote in message

banging head on wall
-- /Slugsie "Steven Wabik" wrote in message can someone here help me sign up for msdn so i can be a beta tester for Windows Vista?

"Steven Wabik" wrote in message

can someone here help me sign up for msdn so i can be a beta tester for Windows Vista?

Go to
http://msdn1.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx
and follow the directions. Be warned: It's not cheap!
Tom Lake

damn, your right, nevermind then. "Tom Lake" wrote in message

"Steven Wabik" wrote in message can someone here help me sign up for msdn so i can be a beta tester for Windows Vista?
Go to
http://msdn1.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx
and follow the directions. Be warned: It's not cheap!
Tom Lake

Steven Wabik wrote: | damn, your right, nevermind then. | "Tom Lake" wrote in message | <chop> Be warned: It's not cheap! || || Tom Lake
I'd wait for the public beta release .. the rumour mill says there's to be one very soon - sometime in April - and it will be a newer and better build than 5308.
--
Key Pounder VPE Cert. 2004-2009 http://listen.airamericaradio.com/player/AAR_play.asx

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:51:55 +0100, michael e dziatkowicz wrote:

"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...

It seems pretty random as to who gets beta invites, and who not. I wonder out of those 450,000 connect beta members, how many NEVER file bug reports, and just use it to get early access to the software, without giving anything back. 30% I reckon. Also potential beta testers are not selected (it seems) on their technical ability, nor willingness to particpate, just the MS Lottery...

Ahh it's not random - it's usually based on feedback given on other beta's - bigger beta's usually need firepower from the testers to get off the ground, so lots of bugs on previous betas, lots of previous betas, it all helps :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:51:55 +0100, michael e dziatkowicz wrote:

"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...

It seems pretty random as to who gets beta invites, and who not. I wonder out of those 450,000 connect beta members, how many NEVER file bug reports, and just use it to get early access to the software, without giving anything back. 30% I reckon. Also potential beta testers are not selected (it seems) on their technical ability, nor willingness to particpate, just the MS Lottery...

when i find a bug in XP i usually submit it, while in the mean time i make my own fix. i did that befor SP2 came out. now most of those issues are fixed. its to bad sp2 made more issues then fixes. maybe microsoft will do better vista. "Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:51:55 +0100, michael e dziatkowicz wrote:

"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...

It seems pretty random as to who gets beta invites, and who not. I wonder out of those 450,000 connect beta members, how many NEVER file bug reports, and just use it to get early access to the software, without giving anything back. 30% I reckon. Also potential beta testers are not selected (it seems) on their technical ability, nor willingness to particpate, just the MS Lottery...

Part of it is luck and having friends at Microsoft it seems. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:51:55 +0100, michael e dziatkowicz wrote:

"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...

It seems pretty random as to who gets beta invites, and who not. I wonder out of those 450,000 connect beta members, how many NEVER file bug reports, and just use it to get early access to the software, without giving anything back. 30% I reckon. Also potential beta testers are not selected (it seems) on their technical ability, nor willingness to particpate, just the MS Lottery...

i ran into some nice people. i got two free copies of Windows XP with embeded SP2. one was home and one was pro. i got them through help and support. i had a 4403us back then. it came with a CD that was pre sp1.
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

Part of it is luck and having friends at Microsoft it seems. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:51:55 +0100, michael e dziatkowicz mnmma@comcast.net> wrote:
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...
It seems pretty random as to who gets beta invites, and who not. I wonder out of those 450,000 connect beta members, how many NEVER file bug reports, and just use it to get early access to the software, without giving anything back. 30% I reckon. Also potential beta testers are not selected (it seems) on their technical ability, nor willingness to particpate, just the MS Lottery...

"Steven Wabik" wrote in message

i ran into some nice people. i got two free copies of Windows XP with embeded SP2. one was home and one was pro. i got them through help and support. i had a 4403us back then. it came with a CD that was pre sp1.
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Part of it is luck and having friends at Microsoft it seems. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:51:55 +0100, michael e dziatkowicz mnmma@comcast.net> wrote:
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...
It seems pretty random as to who gets beta invites, and who not. I wonder out of those 450,000 connect beta members, how many NEVER file bug reports, and just use it to get early access to the software, without giving anything back. 30% I reckon. Also potential beta testers are not selected (it seems) on their technical ability, nor willingness to particpate, just the MS Lottery...

How do you make friends at Microsoft? I'm being serious, I really want to

beta test operating systems, office and internet explorer for microsoft. Does it help that when the dialog box pops up that says "do you want to send a report to microsoft" most of the time I click yes and send a report?

yes it is. the first time i did beta testing for microsoft i got something good out of it instead of paying to be a msdn subscriber which costs a lot. and i did not have to pay anything to do that. i have friends in high places. :) "michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

"Steven Wabik" wrote in message i ran into some nice people. i got two free copies of Windows XP with embeded SP2. one was home and one was pro. i got them through help and support. i had a 4403us back then. it came with a CD that was pre sp1.
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Part of it is luck and having friends at Microsoft it seems. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:51:55 +0100, michael e dziatkowicz mnmma@comcast.net> wrote:
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...
It seems pretty random as to who gets beta invites, and who not. I wonder out of those 450,000 connect beta members, how many NEVER file bug reports, and just use it to get early access to the software, without giving anything back. 30% I reckon. Also potential beta testers are not selected (it seems) on their technical ability, nor willingness to particpate, just the MS Lottery...

How do you make friends at Microsoft? I'm being serious, I really want to beta test operating systems, office and internet explorer for microsoft. Does it help that when the dialog box pops up that says "do you want to send a report to microsoft" most of the time I click yes and send a report?

"I'm not saying the answer is a totally open..." So you would limit it as well. Just where would you draw the line? Like any other organization, Microsoft has to deal with limited resources. In part this may mean they need to draw the line somewhere or there may be simply to much data for them to deal with.
There are already many paths to get Vista legitimately. MSDN and Technical Beta are the most common. But Some business partners get it as well as some hardware and software manufacturers so they can prepare for Vista during the development process. This may account in part for the numbers of testers that appear inactive while they are actually very active.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

I think betas should be more open because almost as soon as they are released they find bugs they hadn't expected and they continue to find bugs until the last person that used the program finally uninstalls it. I know you will never totally get rid of all bugs but if the beta programs were more open to the public from the get go and had more people filing bug reports then maybe there would be less updates released a month after the programs hit stores shelves because a critical bug was found.
I'm not saying the answer is a totally open beta program because I'm not sure what that would do the Microsoft's applications and how microsoft could deal with that many people testing an application at once. I'm just saying let more people test it. Don't limit it to 100,000 testers let 1million test it if you can or it not 500,000 or 750,000 people test it. Ok now let the comment period begin.

"Does it help that when the dialog box pops up that says "do you want to send a report to microsoft" most of the time I click yes and send a report?"
No, it does not, you could send those things in till eternity, it does not get you into anything, just Microsoft looking for honest feedback thats all with no strings attached.
Getting into a Microsoft Beta can be very difficult or easy, depending on the application, take for instance, the easiest beta to get into right now would be Windows Defender because its public. But for a BETA like Office 2007, its all about luck, your hardware and how you answer the survey prior to being accepted into any beta. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

"Steven Wabik" wrote in message i ran into some nice people. i got two free copies of Windows XP with embeded SP2. one was home and one was pro. i got them through help and support. i had a 4403us back then. it came with a CD that was pre sp1.
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Part of it is luck and having friends at Microsoft it seems. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:51:55 +0100, michael e dziatkowicz mnmma@comcast.net> wrote:
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...
It seems pretty random as to who gets beta invites, and who not. I wonder out of those 450,000 connect beta members, how many NEVER file bug reports, and just use it to get early access to the software, without giving anything back. 30% I reckon. Also potential beta testers are not selected (it seems) on their technical ability, nor willingness to particpate, just the MS Lottery...

How do you make friends at Microsoft? I'm being serious, I really want to beta test operating systems, office and internet explorer for microsoft. Does it help that when the dialog box pops up that says "do you want to send a report to microsoft" most of the time I click yes and send a report?

Good start is doing something good for them - do something that they'd notice, develop something they want, or just be lucky and happen to bump into them on the street :o) How do you meet ordinary people? Just do that in the computing world!
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

"Steven Wabik" wrote in message i ran into some nice people. i got two free copies of Windows XP with embeded SP2. one was home and one was pro. i got them through help and support. i had a 4403us back then. it came with a CD that was pre sp1.
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Part of it is luck and having friends at Microsoft it seems. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:51:55 +0100, michael e dziatkowicz mnmma@comcast.net> wrote:
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...
It seems pretty random as to who gets beta invites, and who not. I wonder out of those 450,000 connect beta members, how many NEVER file bug reports, and just use it to get early access to the software, without giving anything back. 30% I reckon. Also potential beta testers are not selected (it seems) on their technical ability, nor willingness to particpate, just the MS Lottery...

How do you make friends at Microsoft? I'm being serious, I really want to beta test operating systems, office and internet explorer for microsoft. Does it help that when the dialog box pops up that says "do you want to send a report to microsoft" most of the time I click yes and send a report?

i would like to test office 2007 can someone help me with that so i can test that beta?
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message

Good start is doing something good for them - do something that they'd notice, develop something they want, or just be lucky and happen to bump into them on the street :o) How do you meet ordinary people? Just do that in the computing world!
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message
"Steven Wabik" wrote in message i ran into some nice people. i got two free copies of Windows XP with embeded SP2. one was home and one was pro. i got them through help and support. i had a 4403us back then. it came with a CD that was pre sp1.
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Part of it is luck and having friends at Microsoft it seems. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:51:55 +0100, michael e dziatkowicz mnmma@comcast.net> wrote:
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...
It seems pretty random as to who gets beta invites, and who not. I wonder out of those 450,000 connect beta members, how many NEVER file bug reports, and just use it to get early access to the software, without giving anything back. 30% I reckon. Also potential beta testers are not selected (it seems) on their technical ability, nor willingness to particpate, just the MS Lottery...

How do you make friends at Microsoft? I'm being serious, I really want to beta test operating systems, office and internet explorer for microsoft. Does it help that when the dialog box pops up that says "do you want to send a report to microsoft" most of the time I click yes and send a report?

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:59:44 +0100, Zack Whittaker wrote:

Ahh it's not random - it's usually based on feedback given on other beta's - bigger beta's usually need firepower from the testers to get off the ground, so lots of bugs on previous betas, lots of previous betas, it all helps :o)

I submitted a fair few bug reports on 2003 R2 beta, but got nada invites for Vista :-( I may wotk fairly, but it feels like a lottery sometimes... Was at Microsoft UK campus today on a Embedded XP seminar, and met someone I knew, should have tapped him up :-)

no one i know really submites bug reports at all but i do all the time yetr i never get invited to test vista. getting invited to test a beta is to random inless you pay the company to do so.
"Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:59:44 +0100, Zack Whittaker wrote:

Ahh it's not random - it's usually based on feedback given on other beta's - bigger beta's usually need firepower from the testers to get off the ground, so lots of bugs on previous betas, lots of previous betas, it all helps :o)

I submitted a fair few bug reports on 2003 R2 beta, but got nada invites for Vista :-( I may wotk fairly, but it feels like a lottery sometimes.. Was at Microsoft UK campus today on a Embedded XP seminar, and met someone I knew, should have tapped him up :-)

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message

"I'm not saying the answer is a totally open..." So you would limit it as well. Just where would you draw the line? Like any other organization, Microsoft has to deal with limited resources. In part this may mean they need to draw the line somewhere or there may be simply to much data for them to deal with.
There are already many paths to get Vista legitimately. MSDN and Technical Beta are the most common. But Some business partners get it as well as some hardware and software manufacturers so they can prepare for Vista during the development process. This may account in part for the numbers of testers that appear inactive while they are actually very active.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message I think betas should be more open because almost as soon as they are released they find bugs they hadn't expected and they continue to find bugs until the last person that used the program finally uninstalls it. I know you will never totally get rid of all bugs but if the beta programs were more open to the public from the get go and had more people filing bug reports then maybe there would be less updates released a month after the programs hit stores shelves because a critical bug was found.
I'm not saying the answer is a totally open beta program because I'm not sure what that would do the Microsoft's applications and how microsoft could deal with that many people testing an application at once. I'm just saying let more people test it. Don't limit it to 100,000 testers let 1million test it if you can or it not 500,000 or 750,000 people test it. Ok now let the comment period begin.

They need to get more end users involved in the beta testing phase so there are less critical bugs in applications when they are released. I'd say draw the line at between 1 and 2 million that seems about fair or make it a semi open beta process. Where critical builds are available to the public to test and report bugs on and a smaller number of testers get weekly or semi-weekly builds of applications.

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

"Does it help that when the dialog box pops up that says "do you want to send a report to microsoft" most of the time I click yes and send a report?"
No, it does not, you could send those things in till eternity, it does not get you into anything, just Microsoft looking for honest feedback thats all with no strings attached.
Getting into a Microsoft Beta can be very difficult or easy, depending on the application, take for instance, the easiest beta to get into right now would be Windows Defender because its public. But for a BETA like Office 2007, its all about luck, your hardware and how you answer the survey prior to being accepted into any beta. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
So what is the next BIG beta that I should be looking for on the connect

site to signup for?

michael e dziatkowicz wrote:

They need to get more end users involved in the beta testing phase so there are less critical bugs in applications when they are released. I'd say draw the line at between 1 and 2 million that seems about fair or make it a semi open beta process. Where critical builds are available to the public to test and report bugs on and a smaller number of testers get weekly or semi-weekly builds of applications.

How many people do you think it would take to read and process bug-reports from 1-2 million people?

Windows Fiji :) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message "Does it help that when the dialog box pops up that says "do you want to send a report to microsoft" most of the time I click yes and send a report?"
No, it does not, you could send those things in till eternity, it does not get you into anything, just Microsoft looking for honest feedback thats all with no strings attached.
Getting into a Microsoft Beta can be very difficult or easy, depending on the application, take for instance, the easiest beta to get into right now would be Windows Defender because its public. But for a BETA like Office 2007, its all about luck, your hardware and how you answer the survey prior to being accepted into any beta. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
So what is the next BIG beta that I should be looking for on the connect site to signup for?

All of the major bugs have been resolved long ago, and if there any you notice now, they are already known issues, so need for additional testers. -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message "I'm not saying the answer is a totally open..." So you would limit it as well. Just where would you draw the line? Like any other organization, Microsoft has to deal with limited resources. In part this may mean they need to draw the line somewhere or there may be simply to much data for them to deal with.
There are already many paths to get Vista legitimately. MSDN and Technical Beta are the most common. But Some business partners get it as well as some hardware and software manufacturers so they can prepare for Vista during the development process. This may account in part for the numbers of testers that appear inactive while they are actually very active.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message I think betas should be more open because almost as soon as they are released they find bugs they hadn't expected and they continue to find bugs until the last person that used the program finally uninstalls it. I know you will never totally get rid of all bugs but if the beta programs were more open to the public from the get go and had more people filing bug reports then maybe there would be less updates released a month after the programs hit stores shelves because a critical bug was found.
I'm not saying the answer is a totally open beta program because I'm not sure what that would do the Microsoft's applications and how microsoft could deal with that many people testing an application at once. I'm just saying let more people test it. Don't limit it to 100,000 testers let 1million test it if you can or it not 500,000 or 750,000 people test it. Ok now let the comment period begin.

They need to get more end users involved in the beta testing phase so there are less critical bugs in applications when they are released. I'd say draw the line at between 1 and 2 million that seems about fair or make it a semi open beta process. Where critical builds are available to the public to test and report bugs on and a smaller number of testers get weekly or semi-weekly builds of applications.

I'll be working for Microsoft from July onwards - shouldda given me a shout :o) It's too late to sign up though, had word from the beta team and they've asked some people owning techy blogs around the web to stop linking to certain places because they can't fit anyone else on.
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:59:44 +0100, Zack Whittaker wrote:

Ahh it's not random - it's usually based on feedback given on other beta's - bigger beta's usually need firepower from the testers to get off the ground, so lots of bugs on previous betas, lots of previous betas, it all helps :o)

I submitted a fair few bug reports on 2003 R2 beta, but got nada invites for Vista :-( I may wotk fairly, but it feels like a lottery sometimes.. Was at Microsoft UK campus today on a Embedded XP seminar, and met someone I knew, should have tapped him up :-)

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

Windows Fiji :) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message "Does it help that when the dialog box pops up that says "do you want to send a report to microsoft" most of the time I click yes and send a report?"
No, it does not, you could send those things in till eternity, it does not get you into anything, just Microsoft looking for honest feedback thats all with no strings attached.
Getting into a Microsoft Beta can be very difficult or easy, depending on the application, take for instance, the easiest beta to get into right now would be Windows Defender because its public. But for a BETA like Office 2007, its all about luck, your hardware and how you answer the survey prior to being accepted into any beta. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
So what is the next BIG beta that I should be looking for on the connect site to signup for?

is that a real beta and when will signups begin for that if it is a real

beta?

Michael; Where do you come up with those numbers? Do you know how many Beta testers there are at this time? Assuming for a moment there are half as many as you want, who will monitor the increased submissions since the team seems swamped at this time.
If the numbers were raised as you suggest and you were not selected, would you then ask for a raise to 3 - 4 million?
There are already a comprehensive cross section from typical end users to developers, IT personnel, etc. They cover probably every job you can think of as well as a great many countries. There is a very diverse group.
Finally as has already been suggested, resources are limited (even for Microsoft) it is not always possible to add more of anything, even non paid Beta testers since it still costs resources.
There are options for everyone interested in trying Vista. MSDN and Tech Net for a cost, but you get a whole lot more than Vista. If you have a spare powerful enough computer for Vista, the cheaper of those is not unreasonable. The Public Preview probably coming in the next few months.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

They need to get more end users involved in the beta testing phase so there are less critical bugs in applications when they are released. I'd say draw the line at between 1 and 2 million that seems about fair or make it a semi open beta process. Where critical builds are available to the public to test and report bugs on and a smaller number of testers get weekly or semi-weekly builds of applications.

Its not expected until 2008 (rumour, not confirmed) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Windows Fiji :) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message "Does it help that when the dialog box pops up that says "do you want to send a report to microsoft" most of the time I click yes and send a report?"
No, it does not, you could send those things in till eternity, it does not get you into anything, just Microsoft looking for honest feedback thats all with no strings attached.
Getting into a Microsoft Beta can be very difficult or easy, depending on the application, take for instance, the easiest beta to get into right now would be Windows Defender because its public. But for a BETA like Office 2007, its all about luck, your hardware and how you answer the survey prior to being accepted into any beta. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
So what is the next BIG beta that I should be looking for on the connect site to signup for?

is that a real beta and when will signups begin for that if it is a real beta?

That beta is full and not taking anymore, wait until the public release becomes available. -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"Steven Wabik" wrote in message

i would like to test office 2007 can someone help me with that so i can test that beta?
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message Good start is doing something good for them - do something that they'd notice, develop something they want, or just be lucky and happen to bump into them on the street :o) How do you meet ordinary people? Just do that in the computing world!
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message
"Steven Wabik" wrote in message i ran into some nice people. i got two free copies of Windows XP with embeded SP2. one was home and one was pro. i got them through help and support. i had a 4403us back then. it came with a CD that was pre sp1.
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Part of it is luck and having friends at Microsoft it seems. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Mark Gillespie" wrote in message On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:51:55 +0100, michael e dziatkowicz mnmma@comcast.net> wrote:
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message I think you'll find that an awful lot of people have legitimate copies of Windows Vista. Being careful in what I say, there's certainly a lot of people who "beta test" and many who use MSDN Subscriptions to get copies (but not necessarily beta test), but going off rough figures, there's well over 450,000 Microsoft Connect registered beta testers worldwide...
It seems pretty random as to who gets beta invites, and who not. I wonder out of those 450,000 connect beta members, how many NEVER file bug reports, and just use it to get early access to the software, without giving anything back. 30% I reckon. Also potential beta testers are not selected (it seems) on their technical ability, nor willingness to particpate, just the MS Lottery...

How do you make friends at Microsoft? I'm being serious, I really want to beta test operating systems, office and internet explorer for microsoft. Does it help that when the dialog box pops up that says "do you want to send a report to microsoft" most of the time I click yes and send a report?